Alright I am back again with this topic.  I do not mind discussing anything twice as it will make me smarter (good), help me find better fits (good), and see more deeply the thoughts of others (good).

Now last time I posted this on the forums, which I do not mind doing, got a few criticisms here and there.  Many people suggested my fits were lousy and suggested their own which I appreciate.

A few of them included deadspace/faction/implants and etcetera.  Since the target audience I am aiming at is for intermediate mission runners who want to know what direction to head for, the following fits I will compare will all be T2 with L5 skills.  I know L5 skills will scale many things up, but just remember to put these builds into your own setups and compare them side by side if you want to see how you fair with the 3 ships.

A few of my readers wondered how I got my resistances up so high when they commented on the original post.  To make this clear, my Guristas damage profile is set to 80/20 Kinetic/Thermal.  This decision was made in part by the base resistances on the NH.

I did not use a passive setup on the Nighthawk because of a few reasons:

1. Makes the ship susceptible to full damage of cruise and torpedo fire.
2. No speed modules makes it slow.
3. Not pimp.

Again, I am comparing the Nighthawk, Raven, and the CNR (Raven Navy Issue).  Please remember, it is not pure DPS EFT shows that will win the day (or in this case, finish the missions fastest), but rather the effectiveness of the damage that is dealt.

TL;DR

I have made some changes between the last post and this one:

1. Set the standard with full T2 fits except for shield boosters
2. Set the standard with L5 skills
3. Guristas resistances at 80/20 Kinetic/Thermal

Now let us begin.

DPS

Nighthawk: 659 (Missiles: 559, Drones: 99, Damage/Volley: 2573)
Raven: 769 (Missiles: 611, Drones: 158, Damage/Volley: 4117)
CNR: 871 (Missiles: 712, Drones: 158, Damage/Volley: 4803)

Important points:

1. Damage is important, obviously the NH is behind both.
2. This is only raw damage.
3. 90% of the ships in leve 4 missions are not battleships.
4. There are a good mi of frigates, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships.
5. Command ships use medium sized weaponry.
6. Battleships use large sized weaponry.
7. The medium weapons will get through anything BC or smaller faster than hammerhead drones will.
8. Again, it is not just the pure DPS that matter; it is your ability to deal damage to all of the targets efficiently that sets your overall missioning pace.
9. Just because EFT says there is a higher raw damage output does not mean you can kill faster.

Defence

Nighthawk: 640 Defence (40% cap stable)
Raven: 528 Defence (54% cap stable)
CNR: 571 Defence (52% cap stable)

Important points:

1. With the extra base resistances of command ships, these things naturally tank just as much as a fitted up BS.
2. This means while less of a tank is fitted on, more slots are available to be used for the damage.
3. In most missions, a tank of about 400 or more is quite sufficient.  For harder missions like Worlds Collide and Enemies Abound 5/5 it would be optimal to have a tank at about 600.
4. The NH can grab the aggro of the entire room, set the drones on the frigates, and start killing the BC and cruisers.
5. After everything dies, start on the battleships.

Effective Hit Points

Nighthawk: 97,068
Raven: 83,910
CNR: 125,863

Important points:

1. Seriously, when doing missions, EHP (effective hit points) do not matter.
2. This is not an accurate attribute to judge on for measuring ones tank.
3. Still, the NH has more than the Raven, and a little less than the CNR.

Speed

Nighthawk: 408 m/s
Raven: 118 m/s
CNR: 118 m/s

Important points:

1. Speed is still critical in PvE.
2. In a smaller ship, speedier, ship, they are more likely to avoid damage.
3. Long distances between gates or objects, those days are in the past.
4. This speed is also a form of tank.  It only plays a small part, but paired with a small signature radius this disrupts the enemy’s turret tracking and missile damage.

Signature Radius

Nighthawk: 390 m^2
Raven: 599 m^2
CNR: 626 m^2

Important points:

1. In addition to speed, command ships have signature radius on their side, unless it is quad-shield-extended.
2. In larger sizes, battleships take full damage from all forms of damage.  With the smaller size command ships take less from torpedoes and cruise missiles.
3. These figures are definitely bumped up due to using T2 fury missiles.

Scan Resolution

Nighthawk: 243.8 mm
Raven: 106.3 mm
CNR: 106.3 mm

Important points:

1. Less time locking means more of using missiles, guns, or drones.
2. Once the Raven achieves lock on those darn scrambling spider drones it would be a floating scrap already.

Align Time

Nighthawk: 7.4 seconds
Raven: 10.5 seconds
CNR: 10.5 seconds

Important points:

1. If you really need to get the hell out of a place when you are not aligned, the NH has a much better chance to survive than the Raven, period.

Summary

I just want to show you the capabilities of the NH.  For 99% of missions they are total win and can beat the Raven and CNR time wise.  There are many other benefits to flying one (less likely to be scanned down, you look pimp) and I admit the Raven and CNR both have their places in running missions.

So in the end, I strongly suggest you take a look at it’s potential and compare it with other ships.  Meanwhile if you have 2 months on your training plan before you can hop into this babe, spoil yourself and buy the CNR.

(IMHO, NH ≥ CNR > Raven)

I am totally open to feedback!

Is a command ship is better than a battleship at doing level 4 missions?

I have seen this question being posed many times in the forums and below one of my Mission In A Minute videos.

• http://www.eve-search.com/thread/401528
• http://www.eve-search.com/thread/576272
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alCnBDLtkOM

This topic is quite debatable, but all of the following are only my experiences on how the two types of ships compare.

In my ramble I will be comparing the Nighthawk, Raven, and the CNR (Raven Navy Issue).

Just to make things clear, this article will focus on the ability to complete missions in the said ships with my skills; they are not very super or very the suck, just average.

When missioning, it should be for one’s ship to be able to kill the enemies in quick time while having a tank that is able to stand up to some punishment when taking the time to kill the enemies.   There are many ways to have a tank, weather that be removing the source of damage or just having a constant replenishment to the shields/armor/hull to keep it stable depends on your ship setup.

The following stats for these three ships are taken directly from EFT based on some of the most popular and useful setups I have found and modified:

DPS

• Nighthawk: 407 (Missiles: 331, Drones: 75, Damage/Volley: 1752)
• Raven: 358 (Missiles: 237, Drones: 121, Damage/Volley: 2368)
• CNR: 493 (Missiles: 372, Drones: 121, Damage/Volley: 2368)

As anyone would assume, damage is one of the most important aspects of fitting our ships to kill.  Obviously here the NH (Nighthawk) does more damage than the regular T2 fit Raven (+49) but puts out less than the CNR (-86).  This is raw damage so to speak.  The two platforms compete and if anyone who has been missioning in the Raven for a few weeks can afford to buy the CNR, but here is the catch, not 90%  of enemies are battleships on Level 4’s.

What not everyone realizes is that the thing is with every mission there are a good mix of frigates, cruisers, BC (battlecruisers), and BS (battleships).  Command ships use medium sized weaponry and as a result chew through anything BC or smaller than the hammerhead drones in the Raven will.

My NH takes down cruisers faster than either a torpedo or cruise missile user would in most situations.  Frigates are vaporized after one or two volleys of missiles.  Sure the battleships take longer, but it is not just the pure DPS that matter; it is your ability to deal damage to all of the targets efficiently that sets your overall missioning pace.  Just because EFT says there is a higher raw damage output does not mean you can kill faster.

Defence

• Nighthawk: 688 Defense (40% cap stable)
• Raven: 620 Defense (54% cap stable)
• CNR: 601 Defense (52% cap stable)

With the extra base resistances of command ships, these things are meant to naturally tank just as much as a fitted up BS.  With these extra resistances this means while less of an extra tank is fitted on, more slots are available to be used for the damage part of things.

Sometimes more gank equals more tank.  In missions, a lot of players that fly the Raven go after the scrambling frigates and try to eliminate the cruisers before they finally start shooting at the battleships.  This method of doing things result in more damage being taken by the ship when it is killing the enemies that deal the small stuff.

With the NH and its monstrous tank I can grab the aggro of the entire room, set the drones on the frigates, and start killing the BC and cruisers.  After everything dies, then I start on the battleships.  Since they die much quicker this method works.

Effective Hit Points

• Nighthawk: 97,806
• Raven: 52,141
• CNR: 132,932

Seriously, when you are doing missions, EHP (effective hit points) do not matter.  This is not an accurate attribute to judge on for measuring ones tank.  Still, the NH has almost double the EHP than the Raven, and a little more than 2/3 of the CNR.

Speed

• Nighthawk: 375 m/s
• Raven: 118 m/s
• CNR: 118 m/s

Speed is critical in PvE.  Some battleship pilots do not move in missions, some battleship pilots complain that their ships get blown up.

In a smaller ship, a speedier ship, they are without a doubt more likely to avoid damage.  In situations with long distances between gates or objects, speed is critical to get to the destination.

This speed is also a form of tank.  Although it only plays a small part, paired with the signature radius of the ship this disrupts the enemy’s turret tracking and missile damage.

Signature Radius

• Nighthawk: 334 m^2
• Raven: 460 m^2
• CNR: 460 m^2

In addition to speed, command ships have signature radius on their side, unless it is quad-shield-extended.

In larger sizes, battleships take full damage from all forms of damage.  With the smaller size command ships take less from torpedoes and cruise missiles.

Scan Resolution

• Nighthawk: 224.3 mm
• Raven: 97.8 mm
• CNR: 97.8 mm

Locking enemies means less time wasted not using missiles, guns, or drones.

Against the same targets, the NH will take less than half of the time to lock than the Raven. Once the Raven achieves lock that darn spider drone would be a floating scrap already after a volley of heavy missiles and a flight of drones from the NH.

Small and nimble targets will never be your woe again…

Align Time

• Nighthawk: 7.4 seconds
• Raven: 10.5 seconds
• CNR: 10.5 seconds

If you really need to get the hell out of a place when you are not aligned, the NH has a much better chance to survive than the Raven, period.

Or not.

A Spark of Idea

As it is the usual Saturday afternoon, the three of us in my corp (Saft, Zoe, and I) sat in the corp chat channel discussing ship setups, plans, and researching something that was of the unknown.  Sooner or later, these conversations would lead us to an op; either missioning, can flipping, or very rarely, a mining op.  That night, however, was different.  As Saft questioned me about CovOp ships and other information on probing, this idea about ninja-salvaging came into his mind.

Ninja-Salvaging

He was training Astrometrics when he remembered the time we were ninja-salvaged from and he suggested we do the same thing.  I was at Astro. 3 and could use my probe launchers and 2 of the 5 recon probes.  Good enough.  Saft asked me to explain more on this subject to him and so I did; it was to scan down in a system any CNR’s, Ravens, and other missioning ships, then warp in on them and steal their salvage while they sit there helplessly.  It sounded like it’s a pretty fun way to get a few million eh?

Setting it all in Motion

Saft and I loaded up in our special new ship setups, and with our special ships they fit just perfectly!  These Manticore stealth bombers do the trick just perfect.  Enough space for salvaging as well as enough CPU for those probe launchers!  Undocking threw us out and we formulated a few plans.  First, find some spots in the system so we can get good cover with out probes.  At the time, I could only use the Fathom and Snoop probe, and Saft could only drop the Snoop.  So every 10AUs or so we bookmarked and dropped a  probe, and once half of the system was covered, we scanned.  This was my first time so I acted very noob, scanning for Cosmic Anomalies and Cosmic Signatures with recon probes.  A good waste of 5 minutes but hey, a lesson was learned.  Next up I finally remembered what someone said to me, “scan for ships!”.  No doubt, this next scan brought me a lot of results!

Yum Yum

We found 3 deadspaces marked by CNRs (Caldari Navy Ravens) on our first scans, and immediately after I start salvaging in one, I pressed analyze again.  While the computers were sweeping the system looking for ships, I blasted the afterburner and hurtled towards a what seemed to be a large Guristas wreck and as soon as I got into a range of 5000m, I activated all 3 of my Salvager Is.  One my first run I was successful, yes!  Saft flew in beside me into the complex and began his salvaging.  At this same time, Zoe became interested in what we were doing and decided to observe us and tag along in his Buzzard.  We hadn’t even noticed where he was when he told us he was right there beside us, thanks to his CovOps cloak that enabled him to warp unseen.

More of Us

Wow, there was quite the bit of people also ninja-salvaging.  During our time so far, we had met about 3 other ships trying to get and salvage what they can.  Of course, we were faster and managed to get to the salvage faster and pull the materials out quicker.  Thank goodness for lots of high slots and good skills, I think today’s work will pay off very well…

One Down, Two Left

On accident, Zoe pressed warp on an acceleration gate and was slung into the next room of the deadspace.  Once he arrived, all the space debris around him decloaked his ship and then the enemies began to shoot on him.  The debris that decloaked him also bumped the Buzzard around and the warp vector he was trying to go to did not align with his ship.  A few seconds later, the frigate became a blue flash in the sky and he was left in his pod.  A distress signal was sent to Saft and I and we began evacuation procedures right away.  When Saft warped in with his Manticore, he got shot before he could retrieve Zoe’s belongings so he had to make an emergency dock… at a station without any repair mechanics!  A quick message was sent to a private contractor and in less than 10 minutes, his ship was repaired and ready to go again.  While Saft missed his goal, I was able to switch out of the stealth bomber for a speedy interceptor and zipped over to Zoe’s wrecks, grabbed everything I could and got the heck out of there!

Two Down, One Left

Okay, after that first incident, Saft and I split up and Zoe left for a while.  During this time, I happily salvaged about 4 more deadspace pockets before Saft told me he was shot down.  Oh dear, what happened this time?  The transmission between us two kept cutting out, but eventually I found his wreck and retrieved his stuff.  Probe launcher, probes, some salvage; hey, most of the good stuff survived!

Let’s Call it a Day

T’was getting late, ships were being blow up, voices grew tiresome, and a good chunk of salvage has been found.  Zoe retired a long time ago and Saft decided to go dock up, adjust some orders and finish his routines.  As I headed back to the station, I scanned one more time to see one last time if there are any delicious stuff still laying around.  Bingo, a hit with a Drake, a Nightmare, and a Cormorant!  Tired, but I though I could do this one last one as if there were more than two people doing a mission, then sure had to be full of salvage!  I took off to the location and when I landed, I saw the Nightmare tractoring loot in for salvage and loot.  Quickly I turned on the afterburners and caught up to it.  Before he could even get another cycle on the salvage, I yoinked them from his grasps and he broadcasts into the local channel demanding I give him his stuff back.  Like I always do, I ignored his request and keep going.

The Waiting Game

His friends must have warped out of the next room because as soon as I got the last wreck, they warped into the first, already cleared room.  A guy named Beepus started a private message conversation with me and I replied:

Beepus: u want this stuff m8? go for it, u warp in and tank for us and u can keep the stuff
Me: Nah, i’ll let you tank!
Beepus: hows ur patience tank m8?
Me: Good, it’s a slow sunday afternoon so i’m pretty chill.
Beepus: well good man, i got so much pot and alcohol and powders we coulod be here for a week ;)
Me: Cool stuff.

Looks like he wanted to wait.  Alright then, no problem with me.  Then after a while when his patience got to him, he said:

Beepus: for sure, u obvuioulsy not 13.. that gives u a few plus points
Beepus: ok ur boring, we going thru the gate gonna clean up, dont know what ur doing
Beepus: u smoke or drink?

I was doing some maintenance on the ship so I didn’t bother to respond to him*.  I have lots of patience!

Hurry Into the Pod

I ran towards my pod as the ship began to buckle; I had to act quick to survive.  The crew has already scramble for whatever was available or left and just as I jumped into the little egg, the ship exploded; the second blue flash I saw today.  So this Beepus guy hired a mercenary and both of them suicide killed me with Caracals.  Hehe, I laughed and went back to the station to grab my Crow again.  In no time I was able to warp back and loot all three ship’s wrecks while his friend in the Nightmare just sat there looking at space.  Hey, I got some pretty nice stuff; my ship was uninsured because T2 insurance is just corrupt; there were T2 heavy missile launchers and various other good stuff!

The Final Act

Done and done, finally.  Lost my ship but tonight covered all expenses.  It was a super fun night and after signing some contracts, I made for my quarters.

—

*I actually wasn’t working on the ship, but rather alt-tabbed out doing some homework…  That is another lesson learned in the same day; EVE is not a game to be played in AFK mode!